killington sale finalized

[Mistergiff]

The future of Pico is cloudy. Anybody who thinks they know what is going to happen there is kidding themselves.

One thing we do know about Pico. It makes no profit. Breaking even was only achieved when they reduced the number of days it was open each week. Because of this fact, I have been one who believes the only reason Powdr kept Pico open was because of the prospect of the Interconnect somewhere down the line. Powdr would hold onto Pico, as long as it wasn't losing money.

I think it is likely new ownership will continue the same plan. Hold onto Pico, while making marginal upgrades, as long as it isn't losing money. But major investment there, without an eye on the interconnect, seems highly unlikely to me. And between the village and later real estate builds, combined with all the deferred maintenance at Killington, the interconnect would be quite a few years away at best. They aren't going to do any major upgrades at Pico in the near future, based only on a hope that the Interconnect comes in the distant one.

Looking back and all those Yan retrofits https://liftblog.com/2016/03/15/yan-hig ... ars-later/ I'd make a guess that with Sun Valley Sunday River, and Mammoth replacing theirs, and now Superstar, Pico's pair are likely to be the last ones standing. June Mt. and Mt. Snow are in the running there too.

[RENO]

Hate to jump on the Interconnect thing again, but what would be better at selling the Snowshed/Rams Head village than a new Interconnect to Pico right from the heart of the village? I guess we'll see with the new owners. Personally, I could care less about the village even though we could walk to the new village from our condo. We would be happy if they put in 10,000 new snowguns and upgraded/replaced all the older lifts! LOL!

[daytripper]

If the interconnect isn't in the plans for the future then I doubt pico is in the plans for the future either. But ya know, don't Killington pico, let it end up on nelsap.

[easyrider16]

After the village and infrastructure upgrades, the interconnect is the next logical step. What did he say? They're gonna reinvest the profits for 10 years? I say they start talking about doing the interconnect in 5. It would tremendously enhance the value of the resort, especially as pointed out above with the village right there. These investors are still business people and while they're reinvesting the profits, I think they're going to want to see capital appreciation. Best way to do that is connecting Pico to Killington to make the largest ski resort in New England.

[Bayfive]

Pico is fine just as it is , hope it never happens

[asher2789]

If the interconnect isn't in the plans for the future then I doubt pico is in the plans for the future either. But ya know, don't Killington pico, let it end up on nelsap.

pico being left to rot and fail would drop property values, no way thats going to happen. theyre a package deal. maybe they stay separate so pico keeps its old school charm or maybe they get combined with an interconnect, but theres no way in hell local owners are going to threaten property values in killington by neglecting it to ruin.

[asher2789]

So now the question is:

Since the new ownership group has promised to plow all profits back into the mountain, will people now stop complaining about overpriced beer?

No, but now that complaint will be drowned out by complaints about the various ways the money isn't being spent exactly the way Kzoners prescribe.

they bought a bunch of snow guns and new lifts are in the works! what more could kzone want! isnt that what every operations discussion devolves into?

[Mister Moose]

The future of Pico is cloudy. ...
One thing we do know about Pico. It makes no profit. ...
I think it is likely new ownership will continue the same plan. Hold onto Pico, while making marginal upgrades, as long as it isn't losing money. But major investment there, without an eye on the interconnect, seems highly unlikely to me. And between the village and later real estate builds, combined with all the deferred maintenance at Killington, the interconnect would be quite a few years away at best. They aren't going to do any major upgrades at Pico in the near future, based only on a hope that the Interconnect comes in the distant one.

How do you know it makes no profit?

And while there is no new lodge or lift on the horizon, POWDR just did a major snowmaking upgrade, piping Woodward water over the pass and into Pico. This was a major regulatory hurdle, moving water from the CT river watershed to the Lake Champlain watershed. The interesting thing about that project is how it marries Pico to Killington. A sale of Pico is that much more difficult as the water (Above what Pico's small ponds can provide) now comes from Killington.

The 5 year outlook for Pico is more of the same low key family friendly local favorite hill it has been. The 5-15 year outlook for the Village is less certain. The buildout rate will depend on the absorption rate of multi million dollar condos. How long before the increased occupancy from new development will warrant building the Interconnect?

Over the summer of 2023, we completely rebuilt our snowmaking pump house, enabling us to operate at maximum capacity, especially during the coldest days. The pipeline between the pump house and pond is being upsized as well. We've also added 25 new high efficiency HKD snow guns to the fleet, both fixed and mobile. Look for 15 new tower guns to roar on Lower 49er throughout the season and additional guns at work on Fool's Gold and in key locations around the mountain.

Snowmaking was also recently added to lower A Slope, and skiers and riders enjoyed the coverage on this classic New England trail for the first time in over 35 years last season. This project was completed over summer 2022, with fundraising help from the Pico Ski Education Foundation. On Bonanza, the base area was regraded to avoid the dreaded pond effect, and snowmaking pipe replaced and upgraded. B Slope has already received snow making equipment upgrades and new pipe. There's also more room to play in the snow thanks to some selective clearing on our most popular trails.

Prior to all this, several million dollars was invested to complete the dredging of current snowmaking ponds and pipe additional water from Killington over to Pico. Since summer 2019, more than 16,850 feet of new water supply pipeline was installed at Pico, in addition to over 9,000 feet of new and replacement snowmaking pipe. This pipeline transports water directly to Pico’s snowmaking ponds from Killington’s water source, eliminating the dilemma that has long plagued Pico snowmakers—running out of water when snowmaking needs are greatest. With access to this new water supply, that problem is now a thing of the past, allowing Pico snowmakers to keep making snow as long as temperatures allow. 

All told, these snowmaking improvements have more than doubled the snowmaking capacity at Pico from historic levels, allowing us keep conditions more consistent throughout the winter season, and recover faster after challenging weather events.

https://www.snowindustrynews.com/articl ... -upgrades/

[rogman]

The new owners are going to do what they think is "best". Their definition of "best" is likely different from yours. Since Great Gulf is one of the investors, you can be pretty sure the Interconnect is on the table. My view of letting the Act 250 permit lapse is that someone somewhere at some point decided it didn't match what they wanted to do. Changing the lift configuration, trail map, anything, for that area was going to require revisiting the permit anyway.

As for Bicknell's Thrush, Killington is at the extreme southern end of its breeding habitat, the majority of which is up in Canada. The Killington region is not critical to the species survival, it's a proxy used to fight high elevation growth and development. The birds aren't even present during ski season. So you'd think there'd be a bigger problem with summertime activity such as mountain biking or even hiking. It's not a well studied animal because they're hard to distinguish from similar species. It's believed they prefer to nest next to open areas (e.g., ski trails) not dense forest. Of course, none of this matters, because if not that bird, something else will be found. To that end, high elevations are a unique habitat that deserve appropriate protection.

[Southside_Bobby]

Moose, Mike stated several year ago that shortening Pico's week allowed Pico to break even.
What makes you think much has changed since then?

My point about Pico not making a profit is simply to say that, if it were losing money, Powdr wouldn't have continued to operate it.

Sell Pico? To who? I do not envision anybody buying Pico. Either Pico will be part of K, or it will shut down. I believe Pico is a victim of its location. As an independent local mountain, it would likely thrive anywhere else. How many mountains of any size are there that don't operate seven days a week? Not many. Love Pico or not, it is an odd duck financially as an independent prospect, due to its proximity to K.

I believe the interconnect IS on the table, which is why they have made all of the investments Moose mentioned. By major investments, I mean new lifts. They will not happen in the near future, unless current lifts become unusable for some reason. Not with so much to be done at K.

I am also one who believes all of the real estate plans are going to happen, pretty much as you see them in the drawings (Yes, the drawings that people say are out of date and meaningless). First the village and homes by RH. Then the developments on Yodeler, Northbrook, etc. Including new lifts, trails and snowmaking to service those new developments. All of that is going to happen, but not overnight. The interconnect won't be until after. And anything that far off, planned or not, may never happen.

All that being said, I could see them moving one of the lifts from K at some point, if such a lift is still usable.

[rogman]

First the village and homes by RH. Then the developments on Yodeler, Northbrook, etc. Including new lifts, trails and snowmaking to service those new developments. All of that is going to happen, but not overnight. The interconnect won't be until after. And anything that far off, planned or not, may never happen.

No. The Interconnect will be used to sell housing in the Village. It will be far earlier in the process. While maybe not as soon as the forever promised “five years out”, it will happen. It is core to the marketing of the village. There is no Interconnect without the village and no village without the Interconnect.

[ANGUS]

I'm thankful Vail did not buy Killington. I wish the best to the new owners. That being said. Businesses are bought and sold everyday. If you don't like the product. Find one you enjoy. It's a free country.

[Bayfive]

Rogman , enough with the interconnect it’s not gonna happen

[rogman]

Rogman , enough with the interconnect it’s not gonna happen

Wishing and hoping for a particular outcome doesn’t make it happen. Pico is marginally profitable at the moment. It’s neither for sale, nor is it sellable. The status quo makes it a terrible investment. Without the hope of the Interconnect it would have NELSAPed 30 years ago. That sword still hangs over it. Denying the obvious doesn’t make it any less true.

[Bayfive]

Rogman , go into K 1 during World Cup . Great gulf will have a booth set up , talk to Bryan he is there sales rep . Listen to his presentation not once does he mention or make reference to a interconnect .