A look ahead at the future of New England skiing

[Bubba]

Here's another interesting article...

http://www.skijournal.com/news/2012/02/ ... orizon.php

[Coydog]

Good article, including some of Otten's now ironic comments. In terms of industry trends and direction, I found this particularly interesting:

“If you ask any retailer right now what’s the hottest stuff, it’s the backcountry stuff,” McGuire said. “The skins, and really super fat skis. You see areas like Sugarloaf that are opening acres of backcountry terrain. Jay and Mad River built their whole thing on the backcountry and simplicity and do it on your own.

“That market is going to continue to grow. It’s really fun. If we were out West, it would be even bigger. But even here in the Northeast, we see people asking if they can skin up the hill during off hours, and how they go about doing it. That’s something resorts didn’t even talk about five years ago.”

[hillbangin]

This guy must be in on the South Fridge Lift plan - the new marketing lingo for a poma or tbar is a 'throwback' experience - maybe that's what they'll replace Slowdon with.

Still, regulations notwithstanding, resort managers continue to put together “wish lists” as part of their master plans. At Bretton Woods, which already claims more skiable acreage than any New Hampshire resort, Ellms is excited about the glade skiing potential of Mount Stickney.

“My dream is to expand the glades and put in a small surface lift for a throwback experience over there that will allow people to cycle in those glades,” he said. “It’s a beautiful section of the mountain. The glades go anywhere from double black diamonds to green circles.

[Sgt Eddy Brewers]

I hope Kton management is thinking along the same lines about the backcountry issue. I was just looking at the Sugarloaf glades (Brackett Basin) expansion and it looked very cool.

I wish Killington would be a lot more aggressive at expanding the gladed ski sections. I suppose that presumes they would be able to obtain permission. Not sure of the status on that issue. Anyone know how much thinning requires 250 permitting?

If they thinned 80% of the Anarchy Julio woods it would be fantastic. Yeah, I know some of your favorite hidden lines are probably tucked in there but a fair amount of that amazing woods really is too thick to ski well. The whole thing could be an amazing glade with dozens of entries off Launchpad….sorta like Valkyries at Taos.

If not that... they have to either pick South Ridge / Juggernaut to thin more glades runs (a bit thick back there) or go ahead with some of the interconnect to get more glades.

The actual westslope backcountry has to remain something Killington keeps away from promoting. The Coolidge development plan recommends discouraging backcountry skiing through that area.

They probably still have some rights to drop skiers into the old northeast passage area. Any sidecountry potential there?

[brownman]

Yo Sarge.

This fall, we'll enlist you to hike in there with us and help thin out the scrag.
Always can use help in prepping the lines. Handsaws are de rigeur.
Last fall was disastrous with all the washout debris.

With the Northern Icecap building up, next winter will find it more blanketed.

[VTbound]

How about planting some new trees on dipper. Maybe then it would hold some snow!

[brownman]

At Mad River, they plant and protect new saplings every year...hundreds of them.
Of course ... a custodial sensitive environmental management program is not within PWDRs grasp or interest.
Sadly, DubDip will remain a gash on the face of this resort. The pheasants in those woods permanently migrated long ago.

[Sgt Eddy Brewers]

Yo Sarge.

This fall, we'll enlist you to hike in there with us and help thin out the scrag.
Always can use help in prepping the lines. Handsaws are de rigeur.
Last fall was disastrous with all the washout debris.

With the Northern Icecap building up, next winter will find it more blanketed.

Alright! Actually the idea is really appealing. Although I don’t want to get arrested. I love clearing brush and I love skiing trees but getting busted for clearing a tree line doesn’t fit in my plans.

Why not a “Friends of Killington” club that meets during the offseason for supervised tree thinning?

Friends of Killington??
I’ve been thinking about this one for years and I just found out Magic is doing the same sort of thing so maybe it’s not a crazy idea. Every summer I want to do some tree trimming around my favorite tree runs. It’s very frustrating that there is no legal way for me to help Killington tree runs be more fun. So what about letting guys like me help Kton trim tree lines? My theory was that Kton could form a club, maybe Friends of Killington (or something catchier), and use this as a venue for coordinating volunteer tree trimming (or other projects?) Kton could organize a few summer weekends when the Friends of Killington could meet up with coordinators, form teams and trim some tree lines. I suspected that insurance risk might make this impossible, but they are doing this type of thing at Magic so it can be done.
Why would anyone contribute?
We love Killington
We love making tree runs
We could ski our friends down lines WE cut…cool!
Kton could give us some cool mersh…exclusive caps or other apparel.
Kton could give out a few free weekend ski passes for workers or their friends
What would Killington gain?
Better tree runs
A loyal core of skiers who are even more invested in the mountain.
Moving the branding away from Kmart towards Mad River/ Stowe or Magic. There are a fair number of skiers who look down on Killington as a resort without a soul. The Friends of Killington concept would be a grassroots way to show how authentic the ski scene here really is. Might lure some elitist snobs who think Kton is too commercial into giving K a second chance.
Probably a fair amount of free publicity through news stories/ emails & T shirt wearing.

If there really is a way to trim that is OK or at least low risk ... I am on board!

[Dr. NO]

Leave the woods be. It is bad enough they are over traveled now that they are marked and thinned. Thinning only allows more yahoos to travel down to the end where they sit on their asses and scrape everything down to dirt, roots and rocks. It is called the rock garden for a reason, and it is exposed because too many yahoos slide on their asses or side slip through it because they should not be there. Let it over grow and be difficult again so if they do it once they do not come back. If they want to bush wack, so be it.

[brownman]

Incognito for years...we clear little or no new growth...and nothing that is demonstrating maturity or good health.
Mostly stump mashing and clearing/moving diseased horizontal stuff and diagonal gnarl from the mainlines and no-named lines.
Lots of wood ticks last fall...tons of Deet. Actually, this is how Anarchy, Julio and many others got their legs.

Oh and DrNo, there's no way to keep the real problem out of the woods here. Board curbs are more plentiful than tree trunks.
Private stashes will remain. Thankfully, there's tons of terrain in bounds that rarely sees a soul. Fission over fusion.

[Sgt Eddy Brewers]

Leave the woods be. It is bad enough they are over traveled now that they are marked and thinned. Thinning only allows more yahoos to travel down to the end where they sit on their asses and scrape everything down to dirt, roots and rocks. It is called the rock garden for a reason, and it is exposed because too many yahoos slide on their asses or side slip through it because they should not be there. Let it over grow and be difficult again so if they do it once they do not come back. If they want to bush wack, so be it.

OK if we are talking specifically about the Julio /Anarchy woods I don’t think the problem at the rock garden and Anarchy ice flow exit is that too many people are using those amazing woods. The problem is that they all get funneled into those tight exits.

The entry off Launchpad and exit onto Flume are both really long stretches. I have skied an awful lot of lines in there and maybe I just suck too bad but there is a lot of the woods in there that is just too tight to ski with any speed. I’m talking about lines that are still fresh a week after the last snow.
Thinning more of that woods, especially the exit lines would improve the conditions in there… I don’t think it would draw many more skiers and it would spread them out more. There would still be lots of steep untracked woods at Kton, I’m guessing you know a lot of them too, that you could head to and find your powder stashes.

When you have something like the sidecountry expansions happening everywhere else and want Killington not to follow suit I have to ask why. Killington already has more than enough really tight trees to hide in. It would be nice to see some reasonable expansions.

And Brownman.... I'll be up this weekend ...can I buy you a beer to get the conversation going?

[hillbangin]

Once the mountain gets involved - they put it on the map and open it up to the sliders and day trippers. All the little groups that go up and do small cleanups all summer do a great job. With all the biking on the hill now - it's real easy to go up with a little crew and take an hour or so to clean up an area that has become slightly overgrown with hand tools.

The lack of snow this year has made it look more overgrown than it really is.

There's not enough snow here to do what they do out west with thinning ( Red Mountain ) - you could never thin the whole K Bowl - too much erosion - look at Dipper Woods.

I agree 100% on planting trees on Dipper - they NEED to do that - they ruined a very cool place with that gash - Think of the marketing pub they'd get out of that.

[brownman]

Bang that Hill

[tyrolean_skier]

How about planting some new trees on dipper. Maybe then it would hold some snow!

I agree with you. Making DD a gladed run would be great. Big Dipper needs some replanting as well.

[brownman]

It WAS a glade, as you may recall.
The absolute best wooded runs in the entire resort !!
Paradise got paved ... the Big Yellow Taxi arrived.

Feel free to contact the Dept of Forestry and plant away.
That's way beyond the pay grade of most people here.
Love to see pwdr mgmt acknowledge that need